#ReturnOurCPF #还我们公积金 | Nparks director Chia Seng Jiang
The second tranche of our court case is open to public from 24 to 26 Feb 2016 from 9am to 6pm.
The 4 Deputy Public Prosecutors involved are:
1. Senior Director/Senior State Counsel/DPP Francis NG Yong Kiat
2. Deputy Senior State Counsel/DPP John LU Zhuoren
3. State Counsel/DPP Amanda CHONG Wei-Zhen
4. State Counsel/DPP Jane LIM Ern Hui
The following was what happened in court and all grammar mistakes and sounds made are as it is:
Han Hui Hui: Could you tell us from the diagram on the gazetted website, which sentence or which part of the map shows two lawns?
Chia Seng Jiang: The website does not er say erm east lawn west lawn lawn one lawn two er the website merely outline where is the speakers’ corner boundary.
Han Hui Hui: Is there any mention of lawns in the speakers’ corner on any of the government website or nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er erm I do not recall.
Han Hui Hui: Can I conclude that events are normally held in the larger lawn?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er there are also I can’t recall but there are also other events er that erm I say there could be but I can’t give you any example.
Han Hui Hui: Are you aware that YMCA’s event only has a few hundred people?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er I do not look into the cost of the event organizer but rather on the application itself.
Han Hui Hui: So the approval is an instant approval right?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ah you get it er erm shortly after you submit.
Han Hui Hui: Did I tell you that I was going to march on 27 Sep?
Chia Seng Jiang: You could have mentioned that er can I march here, can I move here.
Han Hui Hui: I did tell you that I was going to march but you did not mention anything about the demonstration approval right?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er no of course not.
Han Hui Hui: Can I conclude that on 27 Sep I have again told you personally that I was going to march in Hong Lim Park but you did not mention anything about the demonstration approval on nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: You told me on that day that er erm so you’re telling me your intention but you didn’t do it.
Han Hui Hui: Did you mention anything about the demonstration on the nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ah er erm can you say again.
Han Hui Hui: Did you on 27 Sep mention anything about the demonstration approval on nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er no I did not.
Han Hui Hui: Did you tell me it was illegal?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 10 seconds of silence* I did not.
Han Hui Hui: Did you offer to help me move my generator and speakers to the smaller lawn?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 20 seconds of silence* Ah erm no.
Han Hui Hui: Is Hong Lim Park speakers’ corner the only venue available in Singapore to hold public speeches?
Chia Seng Jiang: Else where you would need a police permit.
Han Hui Hui: Is Hong Lim Park the only venue that doesn’t require a police permit?
Chia Seng Jiang: The public order act and the exemption so you don’t need a police permit.
Han Hui Hui: Are you saying that Hong Lim Park is an unrestricted area and is exempted from the public order act and the requirement of a police permit?
Chia Seng Jiang: It’s erm within the boundary you don’t need a police permit.
Han Hui Hui: Did you at any time tried to stop the protest?
Chia Seng Jiang: No.
Han Hui Hui: Did you at any time tried to stop the march?
Chia Seng Jiang: No.
Han Hui Hui: Just now you mentioned that you were with a group of police officers, was there anyone wearing the police uniform?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er I don’t recall erm because the tsk there is this police station er next to Hong Lim Park er so I… I don’t recall la that specifically there were police from the neighborhood police wearing uniform or naked in the park, I don’t recall.
Han Hui Hui: Do you recall what time I reached Hong Lim Park?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think 3pm.
Han Hui Hui: If there is no one wearing the police uniform then how do you know that the bunch of mean-looking guys behind is police officers?
Chia Seng Jiang: I erm introduced them to you that they are from the police, of course I know that they from the police er police erm all police from the police er at neighborhood police.
Han Hui Hui: That means you introduced a group of plain clothes police to me?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm actually I didn’t introduced, you asked.
Han Hui Hui: Did you plan together with the police to come to me the moment I reach Hong Lim Park at 3:10pm?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er the police erm assist us er on the site.
Han Hui Hui: Do you want me to proceed with the video that I asked for your identification and documents but you refused to show?
Judge: No, enough of the videos.
Translator: Were you aware that you approved two events to be held on the same day?
Chia Seng Jiang: Yes.
Translator: Do you agree that if you failed to do any adjustment then you failed your duty as the nparks director?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er I think the question is er erm a bit vague la.
Ivan: You said you have been the nparks director since 2011 and working with nparks since 1986 so I presume you’re a very experience nparks officer?
Chia Seng Jiang: For the years in service, yes.
Ivan: So the organizer told you that they were unable to carry out their event?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er no no no no the YMCA did not say that they cannot carry out their event.
Ivan: At first, you did not identify and did not want to identify yourself but very quick to turn behind to say these are police officers, a pre-plan to show your power or what?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm no.
Ivan: So you say this is a simple enforcement?
Chia Seng Jiang: This is not a simple enforcement.
Judge: This is not an enforcement.
Janet: Why did you ask CPF event to move?
Chia Seng Jiang: Their event the day before set up already.
Janet: You know YMCA event has people and CPF event has protesters?
Chia Seng Jiang: It’s in the papers.
Judge: Step aside.
Janet: I don’t need to step aside, I just didn’t sleep well because of this lawsuit I have to take sleeping pills.
Janet: Can I confirm you know CPF event is a monthly event?
Chia Seng Jiang: On 27 Sep, it was not in my mind that in Oct you will also have one but I’m aware that the CPF event is monthly starting June, I understand then it was the fourth and started in June.
Janet: Just now we saw from the video you came with a group of look like gangsters to me, you just simply come, don’t know you and with that group of gangsters?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er the police are also residents at Hong Lim Park so er erm er law and order.
Janet: When was it that you intent to want to approach?
Chia Seng Jiang: So er erm ya so that’s why we have to talk.
Janet: So if you just want to talk to a girl, why must you bring a group of police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ya er erm as it turned out the police was erm they were there la er erm ahem this.
Janet: When did you arrange for meeting with the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Police are there er erm to… to because they erm they are from the er I understand erm you ask police.
Janet: How did you contact the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Yes erm no er it’s a working arrangement the police know us but I didn’t know the police.
Janet: So when did you make arrangement with the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er probably before going down to site.
Janet: What time did you make arrangement with the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: I reach the police station oops er I mean Hong Lim Park at 1pm.
Janet: To talk to the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: No, to meet the police.
Janet: What time did you plan with the police to intimidate Hui Hui, because you’re going as a group you know?
Chia Seng Jiang: I met and plan with the police at about 1 plus.
Janet: Based on your experience as an officer and director, especially since you plan to meet Hui Hui, don’t you think you should bring a pass so that we know you’re not an imposter?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er it’s quite a simple erm you know.
Janet: You’re an experienced nparks director, a civil servant and civil servant carries a pass wherever they go especially on official duty so why didn’t you carry your pass with you?
Chia Seng Jiang: I er I erm the intention was to ask.
Janet: What was your purpose of saying these are police officers, are you trying to intimidate the CPF protestors?
Chia Seng Jiang: No.
Janet: Did you cancel her permit?
Chia Seng Jiang: No, I did not.
Janet: Why didn’t you?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm because ya.
Janet: From 22 to 27, there are five days, why didn’t Sim Bee Lan and you call any of us, isn’t it common sense?
Chia Seng Jiang: The site can take multiple events.
Janet: We have set up everything how do you expect us to move?
Chia Seng Jiang: There is no set up.
Janet: Don’t you think from 22 to 27, you should have informed anyone of us?
Chia Seng Jiang: Because we could not contact.
Janet: Is it fair that because of the negligence of nparks informing me, just imagine if I’m your wife standing in this criminal box now how would you feel?
Judge: *rejected*
Janet: You know there is a protest and their guest of honor is a PAP MP Teo Ser Luck?
Judge: Protest is a protest and guest of honor is guest of honor.
Janet: Do you know at the protest, their guest of honor is PAP member?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm I’m aware is the PAP MP Teo Ser Luck.
Janet: So you know protesters will be angry when they see Teo Ser Luck right?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 10 seconds of silence* I got no comment on that.
Janet: Why did you not put YMCA at other places like Botanic Garden, Chinese Garden or Japanese Garden?
Chia Seng Jiang: Approval was given earlier already on 9 of Sep.
Janet: Since you can’t get Hui Hui and refuse to get any of us then why didn’t you get back to YMCA?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ya erm no er I mean ahem erm realistically it’s not possible er cannot like erm suddenly you change.
Janet: You said there is sufficient place then can it accommodate six thousand people?
Chia Seng Jiang: I said it can take four to five hundred people.
Janet: What happen since CPF event has 6000 people?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think it is the decision of the organizer.
Janet: So were you working and why did you not show your pass or letter from the commissioner?
Chia Seng Jiang: The intention of me meeting the organizer is to er no erm I mean ahem is not an enforcement.
Janet: Don’t you think you have the duty to show the official letter from the commissioner?
Chia Seng Jiang: There’s no need to.
Janet: Why not?
Chia Seng Jiang: They did not listen.
Janet: If they did not listen then isn’t it become a must for you to show and common sense should tell you to do so?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm it is to facilitate.
Janet: The protesters are angry with PAP so they protest and you know there is PAP MP, you say you call Han Hui Hui, when was the date?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think er when whoever erm and we leave it to whoever.
Janet: You can’t get Hui Hui, can you get the rest?
Chia Seng Jiang: Our SOP is to call the organizer.
Janet: Five days a week and eight hours a day, there are forty hours and you could not get a single person in those forty hours?
Chia Seng Jiang: I couldn’t.
Janet: You mean from 22 to 27 you also can’t send a single email to inform us?
Chia Seng Jiang: The SOP is to call event organizer.
Janet: 22 to 27 is five days and you can’t send a single email but only call once on 26 and you can’t get through then why didn’t you send us email?
Chia Seng Jiang: The ah erm er SOP.
Janet: When two events’ speaks blast together at the same time, does it turn into noise?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 10 seconds of silence* both events can occur at the same time.
Janet: But I’m asking you will it turn into noise?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think we’ll have to see first.
Janet: But I’m asking you for your reply?
Chia Seng Jiang: I can’t reply because it did not happen.
Janet: Just now from the video, I notice the gangsters why they need to hold video and record?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er oh I do not know.
Janet: If nparks had informed me, I would have cancelled my application but nparks did not and because of the negligence and you the director caused me to be charged and stand in this criminal box, how are you going to answer to me, are you going to pay for my fine, for the stress I’ve gone through for the whole year, the time I’ve spent in this court to handle this case and I almost lost my job all because of your negligence, is this a fair trial to me, why didn’t you at least email me?
Judge: *rejected*
Janet: When you were with those gangster-looking officers, don’t you think a tiny little girl like Hui Hui will be threatened when you are with a big bunch of people?
Judge: He has no intention to threaten.
Janet: Why didn’t you offer to move the generator, did you expect her to move such a heavy generator?
Chia Seng Jiang: The generator came much later.
Han Hui Hui: The generator was there since 25 Sep.
Chia Seng Jiang: Wrong ah, it’s fine, I change erm if har you say if.
Janet: You are not answering my question, anyway, on that day itself, why didn’t you tell Hui Hui it’s illegal to march?
Chia Seng Jiang: When I meet erm it was about to tell her lawn, she mentioned marching, but all these are using the space, I didn’t know she’ll be marching.
Janet: But she told you she will be marching so why didn’t you tell her it’s illegal to march?
Chia Seng Jiang: She did tell me she will march but in the end she didn’t do.
Janet: And because of you didn’t mention it, you cause us all of us here to be charged for marching?
Judge: *rejected*
Janet: With the large number of people on 27 Sep, do you think she alone or anyone can stop the people from marching, shouting, chanting all these?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 30 seconds of silence* no.
Janet: If you can’t stop, do you expect Hui Hui to be able to stop the people when she is just a small little girl?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 30 seconds of silence* I have no comments on that.
The 4 Deputy Public Prosecutors involved are:
1. Senior Director/Senior State Counsel/DPP Francis NG Yong Kiat
2. Deputy Senior State Counsel/DPP John LU Zhuoren
3. State Counsel/DPP Amanda CHONG Wei-Zhen
4. State Counsel/DPP Jane LIM Ern Hui
The following was what happened in court and all grammar mistakes and sounds made are as it is:
Han Hui Hui: Could you tell us from the diagram on the gazetted website, which sentence or which part of the map shows two lawns?
Chia Seng Jiang: The website does not er say erm east lawn west lawn lawn one lawn two er the website merely outline where is the speakers’ corner boundary.
Han Hui Hui: Is there any mention of lawns in the speakers’ corner on any of the government website or nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er erm I do not recall.
Han Hui Hui: Can I conclude that events are normally held in the larger lawn?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er there are also I can’t recall but there are also other events er that erm I say there could be but I can’t give you any example.
Han Hui Hui: Are you aware that YMCA’s event only has a few hundred people?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er I do not look into the cost of the event organizer but rather on the application itself.
Han Hui Hui: So the approval is an instant approval right?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ah you get it er erm shortly after you submit.
Han Hui Hui: Did I tell you that I was going to march on 27 Sep?
Chia Seng Jiang: You could have mentioned that er can I march here, can I move here.
Han Hui Hui: I did tell you that I was going to march but you did not mention anything about the demonstration approval right?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er no of course not.
Han Hui Hui: Can I conclude that on 27 Sep I have again told you personally that I was going to march in Hong Lim Park but you did not mention anything about the demonstration approval on nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: You told me on that day that er erm so you’re telling me your intention but you didn’t do it.
Han Hui Hui: Did you mention anything about the demonstration on the nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ah er erm can you say again.
Han Hui Hui: Did you on 27 Sep mention anything about the demonstration approval on nparks website?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er no I did not.
Han Hui Hui: Did you tell me it was illegal?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 10 seconds of silence* I did not.
Han Hui Hui: Did you offer to help me move my generator and speakers to the smaller lawn?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 20 seconds of silence* Ah erm no.
Han Hui Hui: Is Hong Lim Park speakers’ corner the only venue available in Singapore to hold public speeches?
Chia Seng Jiang: Else where you would need a police permit.
Han Hui Hui: Is Hong Lim Park the only venue that doesn’t require a police permit?
Chia Seng Jiang: The public order act and the exemption so you don’t need a police permit.
Han Hui Hui: Are you saying that Hong Lim Park is an unrestricted area and is exempted from the public order act and the requirement of a police permit?
Chia Seng Jiang: It’s erm within the boundary you don’t need a police permit.
Han Hui Hui: Did you at any time tried to stop the protest?
Chia Seng Jiang: No.
Han Hui Hui: Did you at any time tried to stop the march?
Chia Seng Jiang: No.
Han Hui Hui: Just now you mentioned that you were with a group of police officers, was there anyone wearing the police uniform?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er I don’t recall erm because the tsk there is this police station er next to Hong Lim Park er so I… I don’t recall la that specifically there were police from the neighborhood police wearing uniform or naked in the park, I don’t recall.
Han Hui Hui: Do you recall what time I reached Hong Lim Park?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think 3pm.
Han Hui Hui: If there is no one wearing the police uniform then how do you know that the bunch of mean-looking guys behind is police officers?
Chia Seng Jiang: I erm introduced them to you that they are from the police, of course I know that they from the police er police erm all police from the police er at neighborhood police.
Han Hui Hui: That means you introduced a group of plain clothes police to me?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm actually I didn’t introduced, you asked.
Han Hui Hui: Did you plan together with the police to come to me the moment I reach Hong Lim Park at 3:10pm?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er the police erm assist us er on the site.
Han Hui Hui: Do you want me to proceed with the video that I asked for your identification and documents but you refused to show?
Judge: No, enough of the videos.
Translator: Were you aware that you approved two events to be held on the same day?
Chia Seng Jiang: Yes.
Translator: Do you agree that if you failed to do any adjustment then you failed your duty as the nparks director?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er I think the question is er erm a bit vague la.
Ivan: You said you have been the nparks director since 2011 and working with nparks since 1986 so I presume you’re a very experience nparks officer?
Chia Seng Jiang: For the years in service, yes.
Ivan: So the organizer told you that they were unable to carry out their event?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er no no no no the YMCA did not say that they cannot carry out their event.
Ivan: At first, you did not identify and did not want to identify yourself but very quick to turn behind to say these are police officers, a pre-plan to show your power or what?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm no.
Ivan: So you say this is a simple enforcement?
Chia Seng Jiang: This is not a simple enforcement.
Judge: This is not an enforcement.
Janet: Why did you ask CPF event to move?
Chia Seng Jiang: Their event the day before set up already.
Janet: You know YMCA event has people and CPF event has protesters?
Chia Seng Jiang: It’s in the papers.
Judge: Step aside.
Janet: I don’t need to step aside, I just didn’t sleep well because of this lawsuit I have to take sleeping pills.
Janet: Can I confirm you know CPF event is a monthly event?
Chia Seng Jiang: On 27 Sep, it was not in my mind that in Oct you will also have one but I’m aware that the CPF event is monthly starting June, I understand then it was the fourth and started in June.
Janet: Just now we saw from the video you came with a group of look like gangsters to me, you just simply come, don’t know you and with that group of gangsters?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er the police are also residents at Hong Lim Park so er erm er law and order.
Janet: When was it that you intent to want to approach?
Chia Seng Jiang: So er erm ya so that’s why we have to talk.
Janet: So if you just want to talk to a girl, why must you bring a group of police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ya er erm as it turned out the police was erm they were there la er erm ahem this.
Janet: When did you arrange for meeting with the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Police are there er erm to… to because they erm they are from the er I understand erm you ask police.
Janet: How did you contact the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Yes erm no er it’s a working arrangement the police know us but I didn’t know the police.
Janet: So when did you make arrangement with the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er probably before going down to site.
Janet: What time did you make arrangement with the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: I reach the police station oops er I mean Hong Lim Park at 1pm.
Janet: To talk to the police?
Chia Seng Jiang: No, to meet the police.
Janet: What time did you plan with the police to intimidate Hui Hui, because you’re going as a group you know?
Chia Seng Jiang: I met and plan with the police at about 1 plus.
Janet: Based on your experience as an officer and director, especially since you plan to meet Hui Hui, don’t you think you should bring a pass so that we know you’re not an imposter?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er it’s quite a simple erm you know.
Janet: You’re an experienced nparks director, a civil servant and civil servant carries a pass wherever they go especially on official duty so why didn’t you carry your pass with you?
Chia Seng Jiang: I er I erm the intention was to ask.
Janet: What was your purpose of saying these are police officers, are you trying to intimidate the CPF protestors?
Chia Seng Jiang: No.
Janet: Did you cancel her permit?
Chia Seng Jiang: No, I did not.
Janet: Why didn’t you?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm because ya.
Janet: From 22 to 27, there are five days, why didn’t Sim Bee Lan and you call any of us, isn’t it common sense?
Chia Seng Jiang: The site can take multiple events.
Janet: We have set up everything how do you expect us to move?
Chia Seng Jiang: There is no set up.
Janet: Don’t you think from 22 to 27, you should have informed anyone of us?
Chia Seng Jiang: Because we could not contact.
Janet: Is it fair that because of the negligence of nparks informing me, just imagine if I’m your wife standing in this criminal box now how would you feel?
Judge: *rejected*
Janet: You know there is a protest and their guest of honor is a PAP MP Teo Ser Luck?
Judge: Protest is a protest and guest of honor is guest of honor.
Janet: Do you know at the protest, their guest of honor is PAP member?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm I’m aware is the PAP MP Teo Ser Luck.
Janet: So you know protesters will be angry when they see Teo Ser Luck right?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 10 seconds of silence* I got no comment on that.
Janet: Why did you not put YMCA at other places like Botanic Garden, Chinese Garden or Japanese Garden?
Chia Seng Jiang: Approval was given earlier already on 9 of Sep.
Janet: Since you can’t get Hui Hui and refuse to get any of us then why didn’t you get back to YMCA?
Chia Seng Jiang: Ya erm no er I mean ahem erm realistically it’s not possible er cannot like erm suddenly you change.
Janet: You said there is sufficient place then can it accommodate six thousand people?
Chia Seng Jiang: I said it can take four to five hundred people.
Janet: What happen since CPF event has 6000 people?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think it is the decision of the organizer.
Janet: So were you working and why did you not show your pass or letter from the commissioner?
Chia Seng Jiang: The intention of me meeting the organizer is to er no erm I mean ahem is not an enforcement.
Janet: Don’t you think you have the duty to show the official letter from the commissioner?
Chia Seng Jiang: There’s no need to.
Janet: Why not?
Chia Seng Jiang: They did not listen.
Janet: If they did not listen then isn’t it become a must for you to show and common sense should tell you to do so?
Chia Seng Jiang: Erm it is to facilitate.
Janet: The protesters are angry with PAP so they protest and you know there is PAP MP, you say you call Han Hui Hui, when was the date?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think er when whoever erm and we leave it to whoever.
Janet: You can’t get Hui Hui, can you get the rest?
Chia Seng Jiang: Our SOP is to call the organizer.
Janet: Five days a week and eight hours a day, there are forty hours and you could not get a single person in those forty hours?
Chia Seng Jiang: I couldn’t.
Janet: You mean from 22 to 27 you also can’t send a single email to inform us?
Chia Seng Jiang: The SOP is to call event organizer.
Janet: 22 to 27 is five days and you can’t send a single email but only call once on 26 and you can’t get through then why didn’t you send us email?
Chia Seng Jiang: The ah erm er SOP.
Janet: When two events’ speaks blast together at the same time, does it turn into noise?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 10 seconds of silence* both events can occur at the same time.
Janet: But I’m asking you will it turn into noise?
Chia Seng Jiang: I think we’ll have to see first.
Janet: But I’m asking you for your reply?
Chia Seng Jiang: I can’t reply because it did not happen.
Janet: Just now from the video, I notice the gangsters why they need to hold video and record?
Chia Seng Jiang: Er oh I do not know.
Janet: If nparks had informed me, I would have cancelled my application but nparks did not and because of the negligence and you the director caused me to be charged and stand in this criminal box, how are you going to answer to me, are you going to pay for my fine, for the stress I’ve gone through for the whole year, the time I’ve spent in this court to handle this case and I almost lost my job all because of your negligence, is this a fair trial to me, why didn’t you at least email me?
Judge: *rejected*
Janet: When you were with those gangster-looking officers, don’t you think a tiny little girl like Hui Hui will be threatened when you are with a big bunch of people?
Judge: He has no intention to threaten.
Janet: Why didn’t you offer to move the generator, did you expect her to move such a heavy generator?
Chia Seng Jiang: The generator came much later.
Han Hui Hui: The generator was there since 25 Sep.
Chia Seng Jiang: Wrong ah, it’s fine, I change erm if har you say if.
Janet: You are not answering my question, anyway, on that day itself, why didn’t you tell Hui Hui it’s illegal to march?
Chia Seng Jiang: When I meet erm it was about to tell her lawn, she mentioned marching, but all these are using the space, I didn’t know she’ll be marching.
Janet: But she told you she will be marching so why didn’t you tell her it’s illegal to march?
Chia Seng Jiang: She did tell me she will march but in the end she didn’t do.
Janet: And because of you didn’t mention it, you cause us all of us here to be charged for marching?
Judge: *rejected*
Janet: With the large number of people on 27 Sep, do you think she alone or anyone can stop the people from marching, shouting, chanting all these?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 30 seconds of silence* no.
Janet: If you can’t stop, do you expect Hui Hui to be able to stop the people when she is just a small little girl?
Chia Seng Jiang: *after 30 seconds of silence* I have no comments on that.
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